[00:00:00] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Hello everyone. Welcome to the song saloon. We just celebrated the song saloon's first birthday on April 26th. very excited to be doing this show. I've done interviews with over 30 artists. Now I've had a really positive experience and I hope you've enjoyed listening. if you do enjoy this show, I hope you're following it on Apple podcasts and Spotify.

And I hope that you share it with friends. Um, my next goal for this is to really grow as a community and I'd really appreciate Any thoughts that you have in doing that. Um, so you can message us. There's a feature right in the show description the episode description. you should see a link that says message us.

You can click that, send me a text message and let me know what you think about the show, what might be improved and what I could do to share this with others.

I'm really excited to introduce you to today's guest, Cogito. Cogito is the artist project of LA folk singer songwriter Alex Pienkowski.

We're looking at her song, There's Nothing Left to Me, today. And, I loved the focus of the conversation on lyric writing in particular. I think the phrase, there's nothing left to me is very unique and something that struck me when I saw her perform this song live a few times. I saw her when we were both billed for Hotel Cafe's Monday Monday with Brenda Carsey, and I also saw her perform as the featured artist of Lazy River Presents, which is, in my opinion, the best open mic in LA.

So I really hope you enjoy this episode and get a lot from learning about Alex Pienkowski's writing process enjoy this episode, Cogito there's nothing left to me.

[00:01:34] Cogito: Hi, I'm Cogito, and this is my song, There's Nothing Left to Me.

[00:01:42] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Thanks. Welcome to the show, Cogito.

[00:01:44] Cogito: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. Very excited.

[00:01:48] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes.

Can you tell me a little bit about this song that you've written? How did it come about? Yeah.

[00:01:54] Cogito: so it was definitely a few years ago now, it's a little sad, so like, bear with me, but it was, it was definitely deep in like, COVID times. I lived alone in Brooklyn, in New York, just like in a studio apartment. And so after like, a bit of that, things get dark.

And,

It was not the best thing I've ever done. Um, but, but basically I, I genuinely, I had a dream where my childhood dog, and I were in my. The, the house I grew up in, in LA, and I mean, I don't even fully remember that a lot happened in the dream, but like, we were just, we definitely at some point were just in like the front living room of that house, and then it felt like it just kind of like dissipated, um, and I don't know why, I just thought that was so strange, um, and it came at a time where I was writing this EP, Anyway, about like a lot of themes of like family and like the past and what sort of your past means for your present and certain ways that you're kind of like channeled, um, or not, or choose not to be funneled into and, um, what it means about how you like make yourself as a person.

Um, so I just thought it was so strange. And then I think another theme that just came into it was like, Again, my present self being very much, in COVID times by myself. And it felt like, honestly, I don't know. It kind of just felt like I was like a shell of a person. And that's where like, there's nothing left to me.

The phrase comes in where it just, I don't know. It just like, it, it was very much like, I feel like there's nothing like in me. , because I'm just like sitting here by myself in my apartment in Brooklyn like all day, and there's no like escaping it and I don't know how I will ever leave this place.

so yeah, that's kind of, it's, I guess it's a few things that kind of like came together, but.

[00:04:07] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's such a unique phrase. I feel like too, there's nothing left to me. It's not really how you hear that expressed very often. Can you talk about that a little bit? Like how that line in particular kind of stuck out?

[00:04:21] Cogito: honestly, I wish I could tell you like where that came from but I really I don't know and I don't remember but like I guess it kind of can speak, though, to how I write sometimes in general. Like, I just, I like words in, like, language a lot, so sometimes, like, phrases and words pop up at me, I don't know where that came from, but, like, I'm glad I kind of caught it, yeah, I don't know. It just, again, it felt very, um, like that's exactly how I was feeling kind of like,

[00:04:54] Jordan Smith Reynolds: hmm.

[00:04:55] Cogito: just, there's nothing left. Yeah, exactly.

[00:04:58] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. It's really hard to distill a feeling like apathy. So it's, it's cool that you can, you can find a phrase that is unique, um, and really, really fits the bill.

[00:05:09] Cogito: Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's always, it's always a good feeling when like, again, cause also I just, I, I love words so much that it's like, if you can get something where it's like, yes, like that's a, that's a nice feeling.

[00:05:21] Jordan Smith Reynolds: So you said you didn't really know where it came from. Is, was this something that you like labored over to find that phrase or was it just like a whoosh, uh, appeared thing?

[00:05:30] Cogito: I, I don't remember like laboring over it in any intensive way. I think it must've been one of those things where it just kind of like pops into your brain for some reason.

it's the, it's the part of songwriting where like, you don't know why or how it happens, but sometimes it does.

And then you're like, I'll take it and run.

[00:05:52] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yep. that magic piece of it for sure.

[00:05:55] Cogito: Like, I mean, I'm sure, you know, where sometimes things just like, Pop together or happen and you're like, oh, okay

[00:06:02] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's funny because it feels like it comes from nowhere really but as like I also really love lyrics And that's kind of where I lean when I'm looking at songs

[00:06:11] Cogito: Yeah,

[00:06:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: and You put in so much work and you like there are some phrases that you really spend a lot of time like, you know Trying to work out but then these little moments where they just kind of appear out of nowhere.

I think a lot of that is from that legwork you're doing all the time on on other pieces, you know

[00:06:28] Cogito: yeah, I I actually I think that's a good point I haven't thought about that in that way but I think you're really right and I wonder if it's something also to do with like, I mean, as you say, a lot of like, conscious labor goes into a lot of other lyrics and maybe sometimes your subconscious then later can take over and kind of like, fit pieces that you haven't thought about before, consciously, and I don't know.

that's a good point, I think.

[00:06:55] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, I'm always curious about that relationship between the subconscious and conscious and making those in sync, right?

[00:07:01] Cogito: Same. and it's also, it's, I, I don't know, I think the subconscious is also one of those things that feels like magic sometimes because, I mean, I guess inherently, you're not actively thinking about it, but it's like, it's the part of the brain that sometimes just makes things click

and I don't know, magic.

[00:07:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Is there anything before we get into the the song? Is there anything that you do specifically to kind of to work on that relationship and to Kind of have a better connection to the subconscious in your writing process? And

[00:07:34] Cogito: mean,

[00:07:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: process

[00:07:35] Cogito: honestly, I mean the subconscious part of it, uh, unfortunately not. And I kind of just, I, I like, I, I just, I think the only thing you can do, or maybe just I can do is like, let it flow whenever it is there. Um, and also one thing I've been trying to be better at is like when it is there, or if like I hear a phrase or words or something, I'm trying to be better at like catching them and writing them down because, that is one thing where it's like, sometimes if you hear cool things, um, if you don't write it down, at least for me, it, it like, it goes away and like, I don't remember what You know, whatever random phrase I heard like two days ago in the afternoon was, um, so that's one thing that I've been trying to get better at is like, writing things down or sometimes like.

Even, like, phrases or even, like, short little, like, verses or poems or something, if you will. I mean, they're not full poems at all, but, like, I just don't have a better word for it. come to mind, or I'll just be thinking about things. And, again, I just, I'm trying to be better at, like, writing them down.

Cause then I also think that it's, I have, like, one note. In my notes app.

That's stupidly long. Um, cause I just write everything like, and again, it's more than anything. It's just random like phrases, but it's been like a really good source of ideas and words. So

[00:09:07] Jordan Smith Reynolds: cool. Yeah, my notes app is, is a mess.

I'm looking at it right now, um, for our run of show, right? Um, but there's so many, like, songs, snippets, and things, uh, that I actually, like, can't go back. And there probably is good stuff in there, but, like, it's not organized. So I think I either need to do what you do and make it a OneNote thing or find some other place to keep, keep it all.

But,

[00:09:30] Cogito: I know. Yeah. I know. I know some folks who like, Will make a new note every time and I'm just like I would I would get lost

[00:09:40] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I did. I

[00:09:41] Cogito: Yeah

[00:09:41] Jordan Smith Reynolds: That's, that's, that is my current experience.

[00:09:44] Cogito: Right, right, right. But no there I mean, I'm sure there's good stuff in there though. So

[00:09:50] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah,

[00:09:51] Cogito: be worth digging through

[00:09:53] Jordan Smith Reynolds: I should, I should just stick through and kind of combine. that's kind of my, one of my spring cleaning goals is just digitally cleaning this, this notes app. Uh, there's actually like almost 4, 000 I'm seeing numbers in notes. It's, it's bad.

[00:10:11] Cogito: oh my

god, wait, but that just means there's like there's probably so much good stuff in there

[00:10:17] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. But then it's also like, uh, you know, for work, I'll do some web stuff and be like, Oh, I got to do this thing. And I'll just like throw it on a notes app. Like it's bad. So it's going to be a slog to get through. Um, cause like I'll even have it on the same note sometimes, like it'll be like work stuff and then, Oh, songwriting thing, inspiration.

So yeah,

[00:10:35] Cogito: oh no.

[00:10:36] Jordan Smith Reynolds: it's bad. It's, it's bad news. I'm going to have to do some work.

[00:10:41] Cogito: Oh my God.

[00:10:43] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes. But, uh, bring it back to your song. There's nothing left to me. Yes. Thank you. We had a really great description earlier that we kind of got talking. but is there anything else you'd like to say about it before we kind of jump into the live performance part of the episode?

[00:10:58] Cogito: Honestly it's still like one of my favorite songs I think I've ever written. I still love like playing it. Yeah. Um, it's really fun to play, and it's like one of those songs that I think sounds cool, but also it's not, it's not like too hard to play or sing, which is also nice for me.

So I really, it's like an enjoyable experience because I don't know, I'm sure, I don't know if you do this, but sometimes I write things that are just like too hard for me to sing. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, why did I do that?

[00:11:31] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Uh huh.

[00:11:33] Cogito: but, but yeah, I don't know. I, I also just as like a little tidbit, I always find it funny when people like tell me that the song is like fun or like, like they like listening to it.

Cause it's like kind of, yeah, I don't know. I've heard like fun before. Yeah. And I'm like, that's funny. Cause it's, it's really sad.

[00:11:53] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, it's that that kind of switch from, I don't remember what the chords are. Is it four one? I don't know.

[00:12:04] Cogito: I don't know what they

are either. Yeah.

[00:12:07] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Anyways, that, that does it for me. It's kind of like, the line, like we talked about really sums up apathy. And then you got this kind of like, Cutesy, like that follows it and that pairing is really nice.

I think. Yeah.

[00:12:22] Cogito: also one of those things that I, I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't really thinking about. Cause really all I, all I started with, or at least on the guitar side was just like, just kind of like a little folky, like Travis picking kind of thing. Um, but yeah, I don't know. It wasn't, it wasn't fully like a conscious thing that I did to like juxtapose those two things, but like, that's kind of how it came out.

And it, it adds like a layer that, It's just funny to me.

[00:12:52] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. There's humor in it for sure.

Um, which I love, um, I see you're using a thumb pick for this as well. Do you, do you typically play with thumb pick?

[00:13:03] Cogito: Um, sometimes I, I didn't used to ever because I, I like, I started playing guitar when I was like 11, I think. And, um, the reason my parents like let me play guitar was, or like, I would, I was only allowed to play guitar if I played classical guitar. they were like, they were like no loud sounds in this house.

And I was like, all

right. Um, But so I, I mean on classical guitar, like obviously it's all just like fingernail and you're not using any picks. so I used to just play that way quite a long time. Um, until I guess it's been several years now, but like just a lot of, um, sort of contemporary folk artists who I like, use thumb picks.

And then I was just kind of curious about it cause I hadn't, I hadn't I just hadn't used them before. Um, and I was like, you know, kind of like, what's the point of this? so I tried it, and and I actually, I do really like them. I don't always use them, but it's, it's it's a fun, like, tool to have, I guess, sometimes.

[00:14:11] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, I'm not quite used to it enough to feel super comfortable playing it with it yet.

[00:14:18] Cogito: No, it, it totally, it, that's the other thing, is like, it definitely took me a second. I mean, yeah, as you say, just get comfortable with it because it is, it also like it not to get too like annoying guitar player, but like it puts my right hand in like a different way in a different, um, position slightly you kind of have to just like hover your hand a little more and like keep it more, Like your wrist up too. Um, but with the thumb pick, it like puts your wrist in a kind of different position too, to be able to leverage it better. Like, I feel like you have to put your wrist down. so it's like my only point being that it was like a whole thing for me to try to figure it out and like how best to use it.

And then also just get comfortable with it. but yeah, I don't know. Ultimately it was. It's fun. Again, it adds like a, it just adds like a new thing that you can do with your finger picking, I think. So

[00:15:13] Jordan Smith Reynolds: and definitely add some more clarity to the kind of lower end of the guitar, um, and the picking too.

[00:15:19] Cogito: Yeah. Cause also, yeah, that's totally the other thing is that I think, especially the, the low end. If you're not using one, can get lost sometimes. So if you just want like a little extra something and it helps a lot. Yeah.

[00:15:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Was this recorded with a thumb pick? This song? Cool.

[00:15:39] Cogito: I only ever play it with a thumb pick

[00:15:43] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Awesome.

[00:15:43] Cogito: I need that. I also, like, I have the strum in there too.

[00:15:46] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Mm

[00:15:47] Cogito: Um, which is with the pick. So it's hard to do without a pick, honestly.

[00:15:53] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I think I'll need to spend the time, the investment to go into it because I've been doing basically everything finger picking for the past, like year, something. Um, and I miss being able to strum and really get that sound out of a, like a pick played instrument.

[00:16:10] Cogito: Yeah. I think you, you might have a lot of fun, like messing around with it.

[00:16:14] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

I'll have to get into it more.

[00:16:16] Cogito: Yeah. I recommend it.

[00:16:18] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

Well, let's, uh, let's hear the song. I'd love to, I'd love to hear the live performance.

All right, thank you so much.

[00:19:01] Cogito: Thank you.

[00:19:02] Jordan Smith Reynolds: and

I've heard you play the song live a few times now. and like you mentioned, it's, it's a song that people come up and talk to you about afterwards, uh, pretty frequently.

[00:19:12] Cogito: Yeah. It's called, people always come up to me and they're like, I really liked the dog song and I'm like, yeah, thanks.

[00:19:21] Jordan Smith Reynolds: so you said you, you wrote this during the pandemic, right? It wasn't like a post pandemic reflection. It was right in the

[00:19:28] Cogito: it was in it. Yeah, because the, the EP that it's on came out, I think in 2021. So it was written before then, obviously.

So it was, yeah, in the pandemic.

[00:19:43] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Why were you in New York? It sounds like you, you grew up in Los Angeles,

[00:19:48] Cogito: I, I did. Yeah. So I, I was born in LA. I, I lived here for quite a while. It was, I mean, it was kind of, um, cut up by moves. Cause like my family and I moved internationally a couple of times. So like, it wasn't like, it wasn't like my whole sort of childhood in LA, but like, yeah, I was definitely born here and spent lot of time here.

Um, but then for college, I went to New York and then so, so I spent my four years and then I spent like another two and a half or something after that. And.

[00:20:30] Jordan Smith Reynolds: So this was post graduation pandemic.

[00:20:32] Cogito: Yeah, luckily. I was, I was the last, graduating class that, like, graduated before the pandemic because I was, like, I finished college in 2019. So, I was the last, the last class.

Um, but then, relatively speaking, pretty soon after that. Everything shut down, obviously. So I spent a lot of time by myself in a shutdown.

[00:20:58] Jordan Smith Reynolds: So, and you, you stuck around after, um, graduating. What was your reason for, for staying in New York? Was there a lot of music stuff going on or what did you study in college? Those, those sorts of

[00:21:09] Cogito: Yeah, there. So I, I didn't study music because I, I sort of didn't want to. Um, so I, I study like media and communication basically. And I ended up going as a sort of day job into advertising, which I'm still in. but I stuck around because I don't know, I think I sort of didn't, um, have anywhere else that I was thinking that I should go to.

like I didn't really want to move at the time. there was also, I was, I think I was also trying to sort of get my foot in the music scene. which I did a little bit, but it was also really hard. And then it was just unfortunate. Cause like right at the time where I felt like things were like, maybe.

Picking up a little bit, and like, I think I literally had plans to play a show, like, with someone finally, for the first time, instead of just being solo. And then, everything stopped.

[00:22:19] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:22:20] Cogito: And then, like, I had to cancel that show. Cause, you know, for obvious reasons. but yeah.

I think I, the only reason I honestly ended up, you know, leaving New York was just cause like, I, it's so, it's just a lot, New York

city. Um, and I, I think I realized that like, I don't like, I couldn't live like a lifestyle that I wanted to live being there. Um, and then again, and also like the city just felt so different after the pandemic to me, even as things were opening up again, like just like everything felt different. And also on the music side, like people who, I had worked closely with, um, like left.

Um, and so it just felt like that kind of crumbled too. Um, and I was just like, it seems like the time to get out of here.

[00:23:16] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Yeah.

I know rebuilding had to happen like in every music community, but that's interesting to hear how it hit New York. We just had, um, Georgia Parker on. Are you familiar with Georgia?

[00:23:30] Cogito: I don't think so.

[00:23:31] Jordan Smith Reynolds: She's, I think you'd really like, uh, Georgia's music. but yeah, we just had Georgia Parker on and she was, uh, based in New York for a while for music as well.

And she found that the, at least in the folk kind of genre that she does, like folk pop stuff that she's had a lot, um, more success, or at least she's a lot happier here in Los Angeles kind of pursuing that. Um,

[00:23:55] Cogito: I, I feel the same way. We're like now that, so I've been back for like two years now. Um, and I've found like, I, well, I mean on a personal level, I'm much happier here, but like Also on a music level, I feel like I've, I've just like connected with so many more people and like, I don't, it's, it's funny that someone else said that.

Cause I thought that was just like, I don't know that like I didn't do New York correctly or something.

You know what I mean? Or just like that I never found anyone in New York, or I was struggling to, I guess. Um, and then in LA, I've like found so many people to like play with and so many friends through music and like such a community that I've never experienced before in my life.

But that's that's so funny that someone else had the kind of a similar thought about it because I've absolutely felt that

[00:24:54] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, I know. I'm thinking I'm going to have to go like find New York based songwriters to kind of combat this and get the other side, you know, um, cause I know that like, there's plenty of really talented songwriters in New York. And, um, I've seen a few artists that are like, you know, pretty far along that are New York based and do really well.

Um, but as far as like the indie folk kind of genre goes, I have seen a lot More people kind of gravitate towards Los Angeles. and as to Los Angeles musicians, I, I do, I'm, I'm really happy with the community here. Like you mentioned, there's just a, a really great community for, for finding, uh, musicians that support each other and, um, also just people that are interested in hearing it, but beyond just the musicians themselves.

So,

[00:25:42] Cogito: No, a hundred percent and also just like people who are nice also Like it's it's I don't know. It's so Yeah, I I had never experienced This kind of community in New York before

Um Again, and this was also New York, like, pre pandemic, where I was just like, just like, you know, busting my butt to like, go to open mics and just like, again, try to get a hold anywhere.

and I don't know, I don't, like, I don't know what it is, but I just, like, the community here feels a lot more defined, maybe, and like, a lot stronger too. Um, yeah, I don't know.

[00:26:26] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, like was there anything, as far as like showcases and stuff, I feel like there's just a, maybe an unhealthy amount in LA, but

[00:26:34] Cogito: Yeah.

[00:26:35] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, but there's, there seems to be a lot of opportunity to play and, uh, especially really like the kind of like faux house concert scene where it's like, you know, they can actually be pretty, pretty sizable shows.

One of the most fun shows I've done is that a thing called like Saturdays at seven, which is someone's living space in Venice, uh, like their outside backyard area, but it's like packed with a bunch of people that are really excited about the the hang and being with people and music and stuff.

[00:27:05] Cogito: Interesting. No, but totally that, that, that's another like difference I've experienced was like just like the concept of the house show. I feel like again, I don't want to speak for New York in general because there's still something inside of me again, that feels like I kind of did it wrong or something or that I missed something.

But like, I, I never heard of any like house shows really in New York, which also makes sense if you think about it. But like, yeah, I love that out here that like, and people put them on, I feel like in, in different like scales. So like, I mean, I'm sure as you know, there are folks who like, have shows just like, acoustic, unplugged, in their apartments.

And then, I played like, a show, uh, at a friend of mine's house, where it was like, amplified and whatever, but it was like, on his back deck.

[00:27:57] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah.

[00:27:58] Cogito: like, you know, you have like the, the Wonder and Awe like, porch sessions, which are also like, It's a house show, but it's just like, it's, I don't know, just like all house shows are very fun to me.

And I really enjoy that concept.

[00:28:16] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. That is a, a really special thing I think we have here in la so I do love that.

What's coming up for you music wise?

[00:28:25] Cogito: I'm getting back into recording now. Thank God, because it's been so long again, literally like the CP that, um, there's nothing left to me is on was the last thing I released. Uh, which was, again, I think in 2021. So it's been a hot second. Um, but so, I'm getting back into recording. I, I just tracked.

One song that, um, I literally wrote like very quickly, I think last month or like very recently. and it was one of those songs that I think just like emotionally kind of like needed to come out. And so it did. And then I was like, what if I kind of like recorded this almost as I was writing it or like immediately after.

and so I ended up doing that and it, It came out pretty well. I'm almost done tracking it. so that's going to be out. this year for sure. Probably in a few months. I'm not entirely sure. and then I think another thing I might release soon is I was like digging through a hard drive recently to, again, just trying to like get ideas.

And I found this, this song that I basically like fully tracked. Also, I think in like 2021. I had completely forgotten about, like, I didn't remember it at all. and so I listened to it cause it was, again, it was like fully done basically.

[00:29:58] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, I feel like,

that's the weirdest feeling because I've done the same thing. I found songs that have just been buried for years and this feels like another person wrote

[00:30:07] Cogito: I know

[00:30:08] Jordan Smith Reynolds: It's, very

[00:30:09] Cogito: literally, but especially the fact that it was like, it's like done basically. It's like, like, like fully recorded and like whatever. And I was like, I don't remember doing this at all.

[00:30:22] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, it's

[00:30:22] Cogito: But, um, but I listened to it and I was like, this kind of is like a little bit of like a bop. And so like, I mean, relatively speaking for me.

Um, but so

[00:30:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: The folk bop. Yeah, that's good.

[00:30:35] Cogito: yeah, exactly. Um, but I was like, I kind of want to like, I think what I'm also going to do is, um, just like revamp it a little bit, maybe just like redo vocal on it or something, and then like, Maybe release those two together or separately

[00:30:51] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Cool.

[00:30:52] Cogito: and then yeah I also have I've been working on a on an EP idea for a really long time So that will also come because I'm really excited about the concept of it but

the recording of it is like a little bit of a beast and sometimes I can just like have a block in my mind about like just like approaching like I don't know, just like, there's like so much you have to do.

Um, but yeah, I hope that these, these two tracks will kind of, unblock a little bit of like that in my mind. And so we can get started on that.

[00:31:27] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. Are these two songs part of the EP, or is it kind of a separate project?

[00:31:31] Cogito: No, they're just, they're separate. and honestly they feel like, I don't want to say random, but they're just like separate from any other, like larger project, I guess.

So random in that sense, but they're not random, but they're just like separate.

[00:31:46] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, yeah, I've had a few of those songs come out and that's kind of the question for me now is like, oh, do I want to kind of shoehorn them into the same thing and make it an EP, or do I just want to let them kind of float in the universe and come out with, you know, a more conceptual thing?

Yeah. Yeah,

[00:32:08] Cogito: for so long, like, the concept of it is so strong in my mind. or at least just like, not that it's like a concept record, but it's just like the, the through line of it and like the theme of it, I think is pretty specific in my head.

So like, These songs don't fit on that. So I'm just like, they're just, they're going to be separate. They're going to like float by themselves. And, yeah, I think that'll be fine.

[00:32:34] Jordan Smith Reynolds: that's great. So we have these singles to look forward to this year, and also potentially the EP this year as well. Or is

[00:32:41] Cogito: maybe,

[00:32:42] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Maybe. Yeah. Cool. Um, where's the best place we can kind of keep up to date with all this stuff.

[00:32:49] Cogito: Oh yeah. So, um, my Instagram is where I post everything. Like. shows and music and anything that comes into my brain. So, that's definitely the best spot. It's just, it's Alex, which is my real name, uh, dot Cogito, C O G I T O. so yeah, that's, that's where everything lives.

[00:33:13] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Great. So yes, go follow it. Alex. Cogito um, link will be in the show notes for that and also for listening to the song. yeah, definitely do check those out there. I'm excited to hear the new project. and I'd love to.

Yes, and I'd love to end just with like, any advice you have for kind of jumping into creativity and just finding spaces that, that help you feel creative and, and like writing.

Um, yeah.

[00:33:42] Cogito: this, this maybe is separate to that question specifically, but like kind of to like expand on what I was saying before about just like writing things down. I think writing things down in your phone is a great launching pad for creativity, but also I, I try to as much as I can, like carry a little notebook around too.

To like write things down in. and so that's almost like, not like a physical, like it, it feels like, like, I mean, it's not a space obviously in the sense of like, a room or something, but it also kind of does feel like a physical space that you have with you at all times, really. So it's like, you can, it's kind of like a portable little physical creative space that you can have with you, um, at all times.

So I've been doing that recently and it's really valuable to me because it like, again, if you're like at an open mic or a show or whatever, Again, whatever space or room it might be. you can still find that little like space for yourself to kind of just be like, Ooh, like, I don't know that like chord progression that that person played was interesting or like someone said something to me.

Interesting. So let me like write it down. I sort of, I subverted your question, but

[00:35:12] Jordan Smith Reynolds: no,

[00:35:13] Cogito: that. makes sense.

[00:35:14] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, so I think what I'm hearing is just kind of keeping a record, like being present in places and having the ability to write things down

[00:35:22] Cogito: Yeah. You know, I think that it totally is like, I've been thinking about that a lot recently, like keeping a record of things because also like, I don't know, my memory is so bad that I like. If I, like, think of something and I, and it isn't recorded immediately in some way, then it, again, it will go away. So, so, yeah.

Yeah.

[00:35:44] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yes, that's the way to capture it. I really liked the idea of carrying around a little notebook, but I haven't like done it as often. could you walk me through like when you're in a situation like that, part of it is because, uh, my handwriting is, is really not very good. Um, so that makes it

[00:36:00] Cogito: either.

[00:36:01] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. So what is like a typical entry look like for you? Like you mentioned maybe writing down, like a chord progression that inspired you, like, walk me through a few like quick entries.

[00:36:12] Cogito: I mean, I wish I had it on me. I think it's downstairs, but, like, like, once I wrote down, I was listening to this song, and I think that It was literally something as basic as like, it was also in, in three, four, and it went from like a major chord to a seven. And I was just like, that's interesting.

I like how that sounds. So I wrote that down or like, um, again, a lot of the times that like open mics, I'll just be like hearing like so many lyrics, obviously that everyone is. performing and like definitely not lifting people's lyrics, but like usually it'll like remind you of something else or something.

or it's like, I don't know if this is your experience too, but like if I'm at an open mic alone, I'm just, a lot of the time you're kind of sitting there for a bit. Um, if you're not talking to folks, so like, I just find that my brain is kind of going, and it's like, you're intaking so much. Um, That, uh, it's so often, it's truly just like a sentence that I write.

And then like, sometimes if I'm lucky, I have like a, like a couple kind of phrases that go together, like a couplet

and that's,

it's lit. It's just, it's, it's just like scribbles.

[00:37:32] Jordan Smith Reynolds: but it may be like it's what you're saying. It's like sometimes you'd write down a lyric maybe that inspired you, but it could also just be like the song concept or whatever itself inspired you and you write your own

kind of thing just in the in the moment. That's awesome.

[00:37:47] Cogito: Yeah. I think that's like, that's more so what it tends to be, but like, but yeah, again, and like the fact that. I can't even like when I went to an open mic, I went to a couple this week, but like, I like, I don't even remember what I wrote down on like Monday and Tuesday and it's Saturday.

Like, but I think that just, That proves, though, like, how important it is for me to, like, keep a record of stuff and to write things down, because, like, there are things that I heard or thought about on Monday and Tuesday that I don't remember what they are now, I, like, I couldn't tell you, but they are written down, so, like, I can go look back, and,

like, you know, and, like, see what I was thinking about, and maybe get lyric ideas from there, and, um, yeah, I don't know.

Because, I mean, all my songs, like, start With something that I've been thinking about so it's like that's so important for me to kind of keep track of

[00:38:42] Jordan Smith Reynolds: sure. Cool. I love this and it's so like on topic for what I'm caring about as a writer right now. I've started writing, uh, since April 1st, actually, I've been writing consistently in the morning. It's kind of like the morning pages situation. If you've talked, um, that, yeah, that sort of thing. Um, I kind of do a hybrid between that and an object, right.

because I don't know, I've, I've. Morning Pages works well. For those who don't know, listening in, it's like three pages you write, um, fully. It's Julia, uh, Cameron's thing, and then object rights are you just write, like, kind of all sense, sensory based stuff on any sort of object you choose for 10 minutes,

[00:39:22] Cogito: huh?

[00:39:23] Jordan Smith Reynolds: which I really like just as a way.

Writing about something that doesn't mean anything, uh, exercise. so I've kind of combined those two cause, just time constraints, but if I didn't have time constraints, I'd probably just do both in the morning. but that's been really helpful. And then I do a little journaling at the end of the day, just to kind of, uh, kind of bookend things.

But, um, yeah. Yeah, that's the next step is to be like eternally writing stuff down. So like throughout the day, just always constantly doing it.

[00:39:54] Cogito: Yeah, yeah, I do like I do like a long form journal as well Which isn't daily, but it's like I don't know a few times a week. I'd say But yeah, but then this is the, what I've been talking about feels like separate because it, again, it's very like, it's just like notes basically more than anything.

[00:40:13] Jordan Smith Reynolds: yeah. I think that's super solid advice for writers and just a really great reminder to, to be present. So, yeah, thank you for that.

[00:40:21] Cogito: Yeah, of course.

[00:40:22] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah. And thank you so much for being on the show. Uh, I love this song and I'm glad to introduce it to, to some folks listening in.

[00:40:30] Cogito: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me and for letting me play and for being interested in it. Like it's, it's really fun to share.

[00:40:38] Jordan Smith Reynolds: Yeah, of course. thanks so much. I'll see you next time.

[00:40:41] Cogito: Yeah. Thank you.

[00:40:42] Jordan Smith Reynolds: All right.

[00:40:43] Cogito: Bye.